Comments on: The Demonic in the Mundane, Pt. 2

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:32:11 +0000

Good to hear it, Todd, and great to hear from you!

By: Todd Mangum

Todd Mangum — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:50:44 +0000

Great piece, Tim — exegetically, practically and pastorally. In fact, the elders at my church came across your blog (and they were not led to it by me, either) and have referred to its insights in navigating through some issues at our church.

Be encouraged — your study and work is having significant impact for the Kingdom.

By: Ann F-R

Ann F-R — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 03:19:16 +0000

Coming from my training & work in biblical reconciliation, colleagues and I have noted that there are signs which should clue us into spiritual influences of the demonic in conflicts. One of those signs is an obstinate determination to be unresolved with another, unless the other allows the one person/party to “rule over” them. This becomes the most visible when, in the course of the argument, what was presented as “the issue” or the problem transmutes into something else just as it would seem that there could be some ground upon which to discuss. The party/person influenced by interests other than God’s seems “rational”, yet the responder always feels as if their attempts to gain clarity and peace fall short. Over time – sometimes months or years, even – all peacemaking initiatives transmogrify into something else altogether which ultimately resembles the “fall down and worship me” that Jesus faced down in Matt. 4:9
Americans often don’t recognize these moments and challenges because we’re more steeped in modern educated and “rational” responses than we are in seeking a solid relationship w/ God-in-Christ, as we meet God in Scripture. I recall speaking w/ one of my Fuller profs about a specific church conflict I’d been asked to review & respond to leaders on. Our discussion was totally focused on how I might help the leaders even to perceive that they were engaged in a power encounter. Both of us had spent time in mission work in the 2/3 world, and had been taught to discern the demonic and respond “in Christ”.
The church leaders’ strategy was geared to respond rationally and calmly, with documented research (!), to every new challenge and anti-gospel grenade this man threw at them & the congregation – all disguised as “purer gospel”. The enemy loves tangling believers into knots of doubt, uncertainty, “need to answer” or “defend”, because as long as we’re doing that (in our human power & knowledge), we’re not moving in faith, trusting God to empower us with the Holy Spirit and reveal all that needs to be revealed as our hearts are humble and trusting.
If we don’t even know how to stand in Christ, in the full armor of God, how on earth will we know what fiery darts are hitting us from what direction?

By: the devil is in the details « Jesus community

the devil is in the details « Jesus community — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:23:05 +0000

[...] Tim Gombis, a professor and blogger (and writer) on his blog, Faith Improvised, has been doing some posts related to why we, even as Christians (and perhaps especially so, though we have another dynamic on our side as well which is much greater) find community not only difficult to navigate, but also to maintain. Entitled, “The Demonic in the Mundane,” part one and two. [...]

By: Jerry Goodman

Jerry Goodman — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:44:51 +0000

Truth and Grace … in our home church we just finished a powerful series on the weapons of warfare(Ephesians 6 God’s Armor) available to Christ followers. This article shines out to show me that I have the possiblities of the flesh to become/have become trapped due to my disobedience to walk by the flesh rather than the spirit.

By: Andrew T.

Andrew T. — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 03:44:05 +0000

You raise an interesting questio:, how do we distinguish between weakness of the flesh and demonic influence? ( or for that matter, the allure of the world …and demonic influence)?

(This based on the idea Jesus was temped three ways, weakness of the flesh (hunger), the offer of the world, and Satan seeking to be worshipped)

Since all sin leads to death, is there merit in making such distinctions? If not, why talk of demons at all?

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:51:44 +0000

Paul quotes that passage in Eph. 4, Bob, and it largely makes the same point. Anger is indeed incited in the human heart when we’re wronged, when there’s injustice, etc., but letting it become settled so that it leads to sin or cultivated resentment is huge.

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:50:19 +0000

I’ve heard similar things, Patrick, but the text is quite open and undetermined. That seems to me to be reading lots of Christian theological development into Gen. 4, which is probably inappropriate. It’s an interesting exercise to read other interpretations of Gen. 4 that work from other frameworks, and which also handle the text fairly. The focus on the sacrifices might be inappropriate and cause readers to miss what’s really going on.

Walter Moberly has an excellent article on this in Hebrews and Christian Theology. Kendall Soulen handles it briefly in his book, The God of Israel and Christian Theology.

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:45:59 +0000

I’ve only seen two alternative errors of over-reading the demonic and total denial, and in evangelicalism, it’s far too oriented by the spectacular, sadly.

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:44:55 +0000

Cheers, Lance!