Comments on: Paul Performs Jesus’ Crucifixion

By: frostspeaks

frostspeaks — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:35:52 +0000

Tim Cole,

Scott Cunningham wrote a great article on your diss. topic called “through many tribulations.” It traces the persecution theme in Luke-Acts. Very valuable if you don’t already have it.

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:32:22 +0000

Hey Tim, that sounds like a fun project! I’ve seen those correspondences before, but I haven’t considered whether there’s a parallel in Luke to Paul’s death/resuscitation.

By: Tim Cole

Tim Cole — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:22:12 +0000

Hi Tim:

This is a first time response. Saw the mention of Acts 14 and Paul’s and Jesus’ death as similiar. You probably are already aware that Luke–by way of massive use of recursion–depicts Paul’s life in Acts as patterned precisely after Jesus’ life depicted in Luke. Everything that Jesus does, Paul also does. All the eventsd are duplicated in precise detail both at the micro and macro level. I’m doing my diss. on this literary technique in Luke-Acts. Big question is: What is Luke’s purpose for these correspondences (keeping Luke 1:1-4 in view). Thanks, Tim

By: timgombis

timgombis — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:45:49 +0000

Cheers, Chris!

By: frostspeaks

frostspeaks — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 02:00:58 +0000

Simply put the preaching and the persecution went hand in hand for Paul. So I do believe you are right. “….if I still preach circumsion, why am I still persecuted? …” ( Gal. 5:11).

By: frostspeaks

frostspeaks — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 01:54:32 +0000

Thanks for taking the time to disciss this with me today. I appreciate it. This predicate nominative construction with a passive verb is rare. “In keeping with whose eyes” is an idiom that introduces the metaphor according to Greek professor Dr. Tomlinson. He says prographo is used metaphorically and may even have double meaning. He said this word picks up on Paul’s stigmata and his preaching (5:11; 6:17). It has to do with words usually previously written, or words publically displayed or read but we cannot ignore your insight into this passage about Paul’s life and persecution he suffered on account of the gospel. Paul was very wise with his rhetoric and we skip over this stuff and miss it if we are not careful.

Take care,

Chris

By: timgombis

timgombis — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:56:42 +0000

Dave, I think this becomes a major theological lens through which Paul views his ministry (cf. 1 Cor. 2; 2 Cor. 4).

By: timgombis

timgombis — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:32:08 +0000

The question isn’t strictly about eyes, but whether Paul’s statement has to do with proclamation verbally (in which case “eyes” seems out of place), or whether he’s indicating some kind of display before them visually.

The Jeremiah passage doesn’t seem to parallel Paul’s language in 3:1. Paul does indeed move on to speak of a message of faith or their faithful hearing in vv. 2 & 5, but in v. 1 he’s speaking about a public display “before their eyes.”

Look again at the Pauline passages in BDAG. I only said that when Paul uses eyes in the spiritual sense, he uses some other expression, like “eyes of the heart,” which BDAG lists, too. So, if Paul meant a display before their spiritual eyes, we’d expect some kind of language like “eyes of the heart.” In that case, I’d just wonder what such a display would indicate.

You’re right that the larger point of Galatians has to do with two opposing “gospels,” but Paul’s point in v. 1 is very specific, referring back to his initial visit and his mode among them. The cross plays a huge role in Galatians, which is why I think he indicates his cruciform presentation among them during that initial visit.

By: frostspeaks

frostspeaks — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:55:40 +0000

Actually, a message proclaimed before someone’s eyes is common in Greek. Κατα οφθαλμος is used with a genative following. My friend pointed out several occurances of this in the lxx, Jeremiah 35:1, 5, 11 (chapter 28 in English versions). We have 3 examples of a message before eyes. Jeremiah 28:7 reads “speak in your hearing” and uses eyes and hearing interchangeably like Paul does in Gal. 3:1, 2, 5. You are wrong about BDAG. It says that οφθαλμος is used as “spiritual/ mental eyes or understanding.” Again, I really like your background info which is important to the book. But it restricts from what Paul is emphasizing. Specifically, 2 messages. The one he taught them and that of his opponents. The force of this passage is on what they believe, not Paul, but rather Paul’s message of the gospel.

By: Dave Black

Dave Black — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:47:24 +0000

Agreed. I’ve often read Col 1:24 -

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,”

…and thought, “What could be lacking in Christ’s affliction?” I’ve often seen this verse as pertaining to Paul’s theology of his ministry and not that he thinks the cross necessitated something additional.